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So in my humble opinion playing a non combat-oriented character on Sundren is extremely challenging, almost to the point of being unfun. I think this might keep away a small set of players who enjoy playing regular folk. Sometimes it’s nice to just have some tailors or jewelcrafters around to create a contrast to all the heroes.
Things that contribute to this:
- Even low level spawns are extremely tough (compared to avg. NWN2 server)
- Roads are not safe and there is no alternative route – need to spend thousands on AC items just to not die daily
- There is no way to earn coin other than killing monsters
- High initial costs for Crafting – recipes cost thousands each, require ingots, gems, etc which all need to be purchased from adventurers
Suggestions:
- A single repeatable non-combat quest with a small gold reward (100gp?) each day. I say a single quest because more than one would be terrible, like on BG where everyone runs the round robin of quests and has no time left for RP
- A small income based on a character’s highest Craft, Profession or Perform skill (this represents them doing work for NPCs, who let’s not forget make up 99% of the population). They shouldn’t be able to get rich with a low skill, so maybe something like (Skill)^2, or about 400gp per week for a very high Craft skill.
I feel that these changes would not significantly affect adventurers, but would make non-heroic characters much more viable.
Thanks for considering!
Thaelis
Posted : 08/07/2024 9:28 am
There is an exp ticker for rp.
As for crafting, to the victor go the spoils! Another way to express this may be thus, to obtain precious metals one requires land that is rich in such to create a mine, which probably fall under the exigo. I think this may be exactly what is in the works for that faction?
Everyone else chases the small amounts here and there, guarded by local threats.
If you want to play a commoner class you could stick to the city where it’s safe? Right now the wilderness is not supposed to be safe, it’s meant to be a struggle, we’re watching an isolated empire in decline while the nobles vie for power.
I have a hard enough time with my rl commoner self, give me the challenges and loot to chase in-game!
Darius Blackwell – Tormtar Ranger
Posted : 08/07/2024 11:56 am
Thank you for the feedback. There are some server details that could use some clarification, and will be more publicly available for review whenever the wiki editing starts working for me.
Things that contribute to this:
- Even low level spawns are extremely tough (compared to avg. NWN2 server)
- Roads are not safe and there is no alternative route – need to spend thousands on AC items just to not die daily
- There is no way to earn coin other than killing monsters
- High initial costs for Crafting – recipes cost thousands each, require ingots, gems, etc which all need to be purchased from adventurers
To start, I would address the contributions you brought up:
- While I have not experienced enough servers to judge what is “average”, our starting level of 3 influences the difficulty floor. Specific areas and dungeons would need to be considered independently, but difficulty strongly varies with build. We would certainly like to know more of your experiences on a per-dungeon basis in their own feedback threads.
- The primary roads I can think of with mob-spawns are Tyr’s Fork and the two Pioneer’s Way maps, both around the Second Wind; which is pretty far from any of the main cities. The bandits are indeed a threat to common citizens; hence the employment of adventurers and mercenaries to keep them clear for trade.
- There are income sources beyond the standard dungeon-cycle, explained below.
- Most low-level recipes should cost below 200 gp each; with cost rising with the expected value of the goods produced. Specific common ingredients can be purchased from Exigo and other vendors; but that is unlikely to include materials for Jewelcrafting. I am aware of this shortfall, and it will be addressed in time.
Suggestions:
- A single repeatable non-combat quest with a small gold reward (100gp?) each day. I say a single quest because more than one would be terrible, like on BG where everyone runs the round robin of quests and has no time left for RP
- A small income based on a character’s highest Craft, Profession or Perform skill (this represents them doing work for NPCs, who let’s not forget make up 99% of the population). They shouldn’t be able to get rich with a low skill, so maybe something like (Skill)^2, or about 400gp per week for a very high Craft skill.
Regarding solutions:
- Seheren has had plans (for years now) to include a much greater breadth of repeatable quests of many forms. This initiative has been delayed and stymied with technical implementation difficulties, but there very much are plans to increase number of quests and errands. However, development of such is not among the current slate of priority tasks.
- We currently do not have professional tasks or payout for high non-combat skills, but I heavily encourage evaluating the value of player-services and to charge accordingly (The SRD recommends a market price of at least double the combined materials and crafting cost for magical items, and thrice the cost for mundane items). That said, professional tasks have been considered for future implementation in combination with a few other systems. Unfortunately, again, development of such is not among the current slate of priority tasks.
- While it is not always the case, I do have intention to adjust the value of items crafted with fatigue to be sold for marginal profit, among other potential uses. This will not apply to situations with no fatigue costs, as economic implications of unlimited production are undesirable. However, much like the first two, this is dependent on manually tweaking many blueprints, and my docket is stuffed.
- An overhaul to the RP-XP system is in the works. We hope to have it available soon, and this is one of the projects on our priority task list.
- All characters who are members of a faction (Any of the four City-states or three Independent factions) receive a weekly paycheck. The value of this paycheck depends on individual standing (determined by Reputation) and faction-wealth (a value that can be influenced by DMs during events of ongoing political or economic significance). The general starting value is 700 stags per week, paid out to the character’s bank account with up to 2 weeks of backpay if you are away for a bit (so you will get a triple-sized paycheck if away for 3 or more weeks). The only requirements to receive this income are 1) be part of a faction, and 2) log in once every couple weeks for about an hour or so until you receive the system notification of the stipend payout.
Of the options available, the Faction Stipend is the most readily available and fits your proposal of about 100gp/day per character. As the value increases relative to a character’s numerical standing and not rank-brackets, it is just as viable for a well-known commoner who is part of the Avanthyr Citizen faction as it is an adventuring crusader of the Vanitium. Keep in mind that the paycheck is delivered to your character bank-account, which can be accessed from any of the banks around the Four Cities.
I am certainly willing to entertain alternatives if they are practicable and fit with the server vision.
I hope that helps your concerns, and look forwards to your future feedback.
Cheers,
~ Kit
Carpe Mundum
Posted : 08/07/2024 6:42 pm
Topic starter
The first actually useful blueprint for Jewelcrafters is the Silver socketed ring, at 950gp. The ordinary copper and silver ring/necklace can all be bought in stores or found in drops. For a character who typically earns about 100gp per day and spends 50-200gp on consumables vs. bandits, that is a lot (I’m now level 10 and can finally defeat bandits without so many consumables, but that wasn’t the case for a long time).
I’m familiar with the faction stipend, but joining a faction immediately has always felt out of character for me. Maybe because I always play Elves, and they aren’t very impulsive. They’d probably think it over for 5-10 years before joining a faction >< Also even just from a OOC perspective, it would be a hassle to change factions if I found out later that it didn’t fit my character. I don’t feel I’ve RP’d enough to understand each Faction properly yet.
Thanks for the detailed response though! I do appreciate it 😀
EDIT: As far as enemy strength, I wasn’t suggesting changing that. I was just pointing out that it’s much tougher than BG and contributes to unplayability for non-combat types. Especially when roads are blocked and you can’t avoid enemies.
Posted : 08/07/2024 11:58 pm
So in my humble opinion playing a non combat-oriented character on Sundren is extremely challenging, almost to the point of being unfun. I think this might keep away a small set of players who enjoy playing regular folk. Sometimes it’s nice to just have some tailors or jewelcrafters around to create a contrast to all the heroes.
Things that contribute to this:
- Even low level spawns are extremely tough (compared to avg. NWN2 server)
- Roads are not safe and there is no alternative route – need to spend thousands on AC items just to not die daily
- There is no way to earn coin other than killing monsters
- High initial costs for Crafting – recipes cost thousands each, require ingots, gems, etc which all need to be purchased from adventurers
Suggestions:
- A single repeatable non-combat quest with a small gold reward (100gp?) each day. I say a single quest because more than one would be terrible, like on BG where everyone runs the round robin of quests and has no time left for RP
- A small income based on a character’s highest Craft, Profession or Perform skill (this represents them doing work for NPCs, who let’s not forget make up 99% of the population). They shouldn’t be able to get rich with a low skill, so maybe something like (Skill)^2, or about 400gp per week for a very high Craft skill.
I feel that these changes would not significantly affect adventurers, but would make non-heroic characters much more viable.
Thanks for considering!
Thaelis
There is an exp ticker for rp.
As for crafting, to the victor go the spoils! Another way to express this may be thus, to obtain precious metals one requires land that is rich in such to create a mine, which probably fall under the exigo. I think this may be exactly what is in the works for that faction?
Everyone else chases the small amounts here and there, guarded by local threats.
If you want to play a commoner class you could stick to the city where it’s safe? Right now the wilderness is not supposed to be safe, it’s meant to be a struggle, we’re watching an isolated empire in decline while the nobles vie for power.
I have a hard enough time with my rl commoner self, give me the challenges and loot to chase in-game!
Darius Blackwell – Tormtar Ranger
Thank you for the feedback. There are some server details that could use some clarification, and will be more publicly available for review whenever the wiki editing starts working for me.
Things that contribute to this:
- Even low level spawns are extremely tough (compared to avg. NWN2 server)
- Roads are not safe and there is no alternative route – need to spend thousands on AC items just to not die daily
- There is no way to earn coin other than killing monsters
- High initial costs for Crafting – recipes cost thousands each, require ingots, gems, etc which all need to be purchased from adventurers
To start, I would address the contributions you brought up:
- While I have not experienced enough servers to judge what is “average”, our starting level of 3 influences the difficulty floor. Specific areas and dungeons would need to be considered independently, but difficulty strongly varies with build. We would certainly like to know more of your experiences on a per-dungeon basis in their own feedback threads.
- The primary roads I can think of with mob-spawns are Tyr’s Fork and the two Pioneer’s Way maps, both around the Second Wind; which is pretty far from any of the main cities. The bandits are indeed a threat to common citizens; hence the employment of adventurers and mercenaries to keep them clear for trade.
- There are income sources beyond the standard dungeon-cycle, explained below.
- Most low-level recipes should cost below 200 gp each; with cost rising with the expected value of the goods produced. Specific common ingredients can be purchased from Exigo and other vendors; but that is unlikely to include materials for Jewelcrafting. I am aware of this shortfall, and it will be addressed in time.
Suggestions:
- A single repeatable non-combat quest with a small gold reward (100gp?) each day. I say a single quest because more than one would be terrible, like on BG where everyone runs the round robin of quests and has no time left for RP
- A small income based on a character’s highest Craft, Profession or Perform skill (this represents them doing work for NPCs, who let’s not forget make up 99% of the population). They shouldn’t be able to get rich with a low skill, so maybe something like (Skill)^2, or about 400gp per week for a very high Craft skill.
Regarding solutions:
- Seheren has had plans (for years now) to include a much greater breadth of repeatable quests of many forms. This initiative has been delayed and stymied with technical implementation difficulties, but there very much are plans to increase number of quests and errands. However, development of such is not among the current slate of priority tasks.
- We currently do not have professional tasks or payout for high non-combat skills, but I heavily encourage evaluating the value of player-services and to charge accordingly (The SRD recommends a market price of at least double the combined materials and crafting cost for magical items, and thrice the cost for mundane items). That said, professional tasks have been considered for future implementation in combination with a few other systems. Unfortunately, again, development of such is not among the current slate of priority tasks.
- While it is not always the case, I do have intention to adjust the value of items crafted with fatigue to be sold for marginal profit, among other potential uses. This will not apply to situations with no fatigue costs, as economic implications of unlimited production are undesirable. However, much like the first two, this is dependent on manually tweaking many blueprints, and my docket is stuffed.
- An overhaul to the RP-XP system is in the works. We hope to have it available soon, and this is one of the projects on our priority task list.
- All characters who are members of a faction (Any of the four City-states or three Independent factions) receive a weekly paycheck. The value of this paycheck depends on individual standing (determined by Reputation) and faction-wealth (a value that can be influenced by DMs during events of ongoing political or economic significance). The general starting value is 700 stags per week, paid out to the character’s bank account with up to 2 weeks of backpay if you are away for a bit (so you will get a triple-sized paycheck if away for 3 or more weeks). The only requirements to receive this income are 1) be part of a faction, and 2) log in once every couple weeks for about an hour or so until you receive the system notification of the stipend payout.
Of the options available, the Faction Stipend is the most readily available and fits your proposal of about 100gp/day per character. As the value increases relative to a character’s numerical standing and not rank-brackets, it is just as viable for a well-known commoner who is part of the Avanthyr Citizen faction as it is an adventuring crusader of the Vanitium. Keep in mind that the paycheck is delivered to your character bank-account, which can be accessed from any of the banks around the Four Cities.
I am certainly willing to entertain alternatives if they are practicable and fit with the server vision.
I hope that helps your concerns, and look forwards to your future feedback.
Cheers,
~ Kit
Carpe Mundum
The first actually useful blueprint for Jewelcrafters is the Silver socketed ring, at 950gp. The ordinary copper and silver ring/necklace can all be bought in stores or found in drops. For a character who typically earns about 100gp per day and spends 50-200gp on consumables vs. bandits, that is a lot (I’m now level 10 and can finally defeat bandits without so many consumables, but that wasn’t the case for a long time).
I’m familiar with the faction stipend, but joining a faction immediately has always felt out of character for me. Maybe because I always play Elves, and they aren’t very impulsive. They’d probably think it over for 5-10 years before joining a faction >< Also even just from a OOC perspective, it would be a hassle to change factions if I found out later that it didn’t fit my character. I don’t feel I’ve RP’d enough to understand each Faction properly yet.
Thanks for the detailed response though! I do appreciate it 😀
EDIT: As far as enemy strength, I wasn’t suggesting changing that. I was just pointing out that it’s much tougher than BG and contributes to unplayability for non-combat types. Especially when roads are blocked and you can’t avoid enemies.
